The Critics X Tripadvisor
No one likes Tripadvisor, despite the site having a claimed 860 million reviews supplied by 8.7 million reviewers worldwide (stats date back to 2019 and are from the Tripadvisor Media Centre). I use it regularly when I’m planning a restaurant visit or an overseas trip but I take everything posted on it with a massive pinch of salt.
I ignore all five-star and one-star reviews. Five-star reviews will either have been bought from somewhere like Boostfunda, will have been written by the owners or by a genuine customer who is easily impressed. One-star reviews will have been bought from somewhere like Boostfunda, will have been written by the owners of a nearby competing business or have been written by a genuine customer, who, nine times out of ten will be complaining that they rocked up at 8 pm on a Saturday without a booking and they couldn’t get a table or that they had to forfeit their deposit for a reason that was explained clearly to them at the time of their booking.
That leaves four, three and two-star reviews. Four stars are generally not that interesting. They will be written by easily impressed genuine customers who are trying to look discerning. Three and two-star reviews are where the gold is. They will more than likely be genuine reviews from customers who experienced an issue during their meal and have something to complain about.
The debate around whether the reviewer should have resolved the issue at the time and not gone whining to the internet about it need not detain us here. They’ve posted the review and it’s there to be mined for information. You will learn a lot about the restaurant from these reviews (as long as they are recent or still relate to the current owners/chef), not just from the review itself but from the management response, if there is one. Just as likely, the less-than-stellar review will be the result of a sense of entitlement or a misunderstanding of what a restaurant experience can and should deliver, and that’s equally useful as a reminder to all of us not to be such dicks, which all of us are on occasion.
So this week, I’m going to look at the information in a critic’s review and compare it to the information available in a sample of Tripadvisor reviews to see which is the most interesting, useful and entertaining. I’ll sum up my impressions in a very non-scientific and fairly vague way at the end of all the reviews because this is meant to be fun, not hard bloody work.
PLEASE NOTE: this is not a serious attempt to appraise the value of Tripadvisor compared to professional critics. It’s a bit of fun and for entertainment purposes only. I have selected the most amusing/unusual TA reviews and very few of them are positive for the reasons I’ve stated above. To be fair (ish), I’ve included the total number of reviews currently on Tripadvisor and the overall star average to give a better idea of how the restaurants are assessed on the platform.
Charlotte Ivers, The Sunday Times
J Sheekey, London
Before we get into Ivers’ review, I’ve got a J Sheekey-related anecdote I’d like to share. About 10 years ago, I got an invitation to attend a press event for VIA Rail Canada and Tourism New Brunswick. I was doing a lot of food travel journalism at the time so it seemed like an attractive proposition, especially as the itinerary included dinner at J Sheekey, a restaurant I had never been to.
Unusually for a travel press invite, the evening also included a night at the theatre to see Barking in Essex, a new comedy play at the Wyndham's starring Lee Evans, Sheila Hancock and Keeley Hawes. I like the theatre, I like comedy, I like Keeley Hawes; it was a no-brainer. Unfortunately, the play turned out to be an absolute stinker; The Guardian said the jokes were ‘so slow you can see them lumbering towards you like wildebeest from the distant horizon’.
I was bored out of my mind but trying to ignore a fellow journalist sitting beside me who was obviously trying to get my attention. At the interval, she asked if I was enjoying the play and I told her I hated it. She agreed and said there was no way she was going to sit through the second half. She suggested that I pretend to be claustrophobic, that where we were sitting in the theatre had provoked some sort of panic attack and that she would escort me out of the building and make sure I was OK. We would then meet the rest of the group at the restaurant after the play had ended. I am the world’s worst liar and the idea of fibbing did provoke a sort of mild panic attack so I managed to pull off the con with at least some sort of credibility. We then nipped round to The Salisbury for a few beers while the second half no doubt ground on.
I then had to face all sorts of questions from our gracious VIA Rail Canada and Tourism New Brunswick hosts over my excellent fish and chips in J Sheekey. Yes, I do love the theatre and no, it had never happened before. Yes, I think it was just because of those particular seats. No, it won’t stop me from going to the theatre. Oh yes, it was a shame, it was such a good play, thanks for the invite again. Christ. Why we didn’t just have the balls to say, ‘We aren’t enjoying this at all and were going to the pub, see you later’, and why I so readily agreed to be the patsy in the scenario I don’t know. I never got to go to New Brunswick, I’ve never been back to the Wyndham's Theatre or J Sheekey and I’ve never seen the journalist in question again. Apart from that, it’s had no impact on my life at all. I only squirm with embarrassment at the memory about a dozen times a year so it’s absolutely fine. Cheers Audrey, if you’re reading.
What the critic told us: The first 438 words of the review are spent telling the reader about what makes Ivers puke. It’s fascinating darling, but I’ll leave you to follow the link about and read it for yourself (you can read a couple of Times articles for free if you are too tight to subscribe).
So let's pick things up when she’s talking about what she puts into her mouth rather than what comes out of it. J Sheekey, we are told, opened in 1896, has white tablecloths and is ‘one of the classics’. She shared a plateau de fruits de mer and it was good. She didn’t puke. That’s about it.
Best line: ‘you’re paying for the theatre: for the raised silver platter it arrives on, the array of cracking and scooping implements the waiters place reverently alongside it. For the lemon wrapped in a thin cloth, the elegant little sauces’
Worst line: ‘I ate two scallops, headed home and threw up for five hours.’ Nom nom nom, just what I want to read in a restaurant review.
Did the review make me want to book a table: Maybe the next time Keeley Hawes plays the Wyndhams I’ll give my old mate Audrey a call.
What TripAdvisor told us:
3397 reviews, 4.5 star average
lustytraveler: ‘Advertised jazz lunch starting at noon. Music started at 1:00, guitars and vocalist who did three songs and then took a 45 minute break!! Please. Don’t waste your money’. 2 stars
Pete P: ‘Fish was de-boned by the service elevator in full view of guests. After watching the waiter faff with de-boning the fish came out cold. Accidentally got 2 lots of carrots on the side which amounted to 70% of the food served’. 2 stars
harmeetsawhney: ‘the thermidor lobster was average and over cooked. I gave feedback to the chef and was abruptly told that it’s the cheese in the lobster. Huh? That is just lazy and arrogant! For the price I paid (£56) I expected nothing but the best lobster. I wouldn’t visit this restaurant again and certainly would not recommend it’ 2 stars
Windowseatview: ‘on the last few visits, when the servers shifts ended, they went from table to table, announcing the fact to all the baffled customers. On one occasion, the server announced the end of their shift to the entire room by way of an intrusive public announcement. The motive can only be to hustle for tips, but the effect is to confuse and distract diners. We shouldn't even be aware of a change in shifts. . . .This is neither normal in London nor acceptable; it's shockingly gauche behaviour, and it is uncomfortable to experience.’ 3 stars
Jonathan C: ‘We were seated opposite the plate clearing station by the kitchen which was noisy and very busy. It was evident by looking around the restaurant that other seating options were available but for some reason we were placed here. The position was a main thoroughfare for staff and failed to provide the ambiance expected.’ 3 stars
Tim Hayward, The Financial Times
The Goods Shed, Canterbury
Hayward presses the button in his car that puts the roof back and makes a pilgrimage from Cambridge to Canterbury (can you guess what quote is coming at the end of the review? I won’t spoil it for you) to eat in a converted railway goods shed.
He eats cheese in a lovage broth, and monkfish ‘tanned so dark on the surface and so hugely muscular within, it looked like a slice through Arnold Schwarzenegger’s thigh’. It was raw at the bone, a good thing according to Hayward (I wouldn’t have touched it) and asparagus that was also raw, a bad thing according to Hayward (I like my asparagus cooked just right too).
Hayward tells us that he thinks ‘chef bros are often weak on dessert’ as if it’s some sort of secret he shouldn’t be revealing. It’s fine Tim, I’ve been saying that most modern menus fall off a cliff when it comes to puddings for more than a decade. The problem is that chefs don’t understand the word ‘pudding’. Matt Christmas at Chez Bruce is one honourable exception to the rule and apparently the chef at The Goods Shed is another one.
A sorbet made with Westwell Ortega wine melts ‘down the pleasure centres of the brain and rob the mind of adjectives’, an almond tart is ‘texturally sublime’ with raspberries ‘macerated in the sweat of angels’. Is Hayward having a funny turn? Does he need a bit of a lie down before his top-down reverse pilgrimage to Cambridge? He’s muttering now, something about ‘Ecclefechan tart and Colin the sodding Caterpillar’. Quick someone, mop his fevered brow. What’s that you’re saying Hayward? Speak up man. ‘Gather a small band of friends and, from every shire’s ende/ Of Engelond, to Caunterbury wende’. Fucking hell, I knew that was coming.
Best line: ‘It was my first sighting of the endangered stripped pine table in the wild and in a restaurant habitat since some time in the late 1980s’
Worst line: ‘an elegantly composed beef tartare, with sliced Paris brown mushrooms on toasted rosemary focaccia with anchovy butter. Please go back and reread that last sentence. If it doesn’t arouse you, our relationship has withered.’
Did the review make me want to book a table: I’ve been. I’d go back.
What TripAdvisor told us:
1014 reviews reviews, 4 star average
larry d: ‘we were also provided with a half slice of bread each. My companion asked for some more, to which the waiter sighed. He eventually returned with just a half slice and said " don't tell the boss"‘ 2 stars
Iain A: ‘The monkfish liver parfait tasted of ammonia (never had it before, so can't say if it was suppsed to or not!). The partridge was incredibly salty and the cod was tasteless. It was hard to see the justification of £15 for a jug of homemade lemonade - we were expecting a little more than just flavoured water’ 2 stars
Judy T: ‘I didn't find the menu very exciting at all. There were 2 smoked fish dishes on the starter section which seems overkill especially as I can't stand smoked fish’ 3 stars
AM: ‘Ordered steak tartare which was smothered in parmesan so that’s all I could taste. Apparently this is the modern way. The hake was overpowered by cheese and garlic. The wine was expensive. Disappointing use of £80.’ 3 stars
Jessica W: ‘What a fabulous setting. Beautiful food with quite unique flavours,the chef and team should be very proud of the excellent food they are producing. We recently ate at a Michelin starred resteraunt in London and the Goods Shed far exceeded the one in London. We recommend the Goods Shed to other family members and they went the following week and thought it was great as well. Word of mouth is the best recommendation We shall definatly return’ 3 stars
Jimi Famurewa, Evening Standard
Café Britaly, London (4 stars)
There’s only one Tripadvisor review for Britaly, and it's a five-star one to boot, so this is an utter waste of time. But Famurewa is back! There’s no way I was going to miss the opportunity to include him.
Famurewa, Famurewa, Famurewa
Famurewa, Famurewa, Famurewa
Famurewa, Famurewa, oh, oh, oh Famurewa
Come and rock me, Famurewa
We apparently need to know about Famurewa’s aborted first trip to review Café Britaly to fully understand his ‘journey’ with the restaurant. Erm, well, if you say so. I’d really be OK if you just jumped into it Jimi, but if it’s vital then, go on, tell us.
Although, thinking about it, I’m not sure my readers are going to be able to handle it. Maybe I shouldn’t repeat it. I want them to carry on reading this newsletter, but their minds might be so blown by what they are about to learn that they’ll just have to abandon it and read something less challenging, like À la recherche du temps perdu in the original French, just as Giles Coren’s associated editor mate has done, twice.
OK, brace yourselves, everybody, we’re going in: Famurewa didn’t go inside the restaurant that first time because he spotted the restaurant’s PR, who he knows, dining in a window seat and thought it would be awkward.
*Deep breaths everyone, that’s it. Relax. Ready to take the rest of the journey with Jimi now? Good. Let’s press on.*
Café Britaly is ‘a tightly proportioned, 40-cover space strewn with cylindrical fuchsia pillows and restrained, faintly geometric wall prints’ and not the downmarket-themed dump that Famurewa was expecting. Hurrah. But the food sounds a bit like it should be served in a downmarket-themed dump. Boo. But only a bit. Hurrah. ‘Britalian carbonara’ might be the ‘cream-laden, fried egg-topped bit of obvious rage bait that led to all those angry online comments and Gino D’Acampo reaction GIF’ but it’s very good. Fennel and caper salad isn’t good but zuppa ingelse is. Good, that is. And then the PR who Famurewa was trying to avoid the first time tipps up and he’s tied up in knotz. But it all ends happily ever after with hellos a good-natured sign of the cross from the PR. He was thinking vampires, I’m sure.
Best line: ‘if the decor is unexpectedly sober, then the menu itself is very much dancing on the table and doing limoncello burps’
Worst line: ‘it’s a consoling, subtly magnetic rib-squeezing hug of pure comfort, ravishingly pan-fresh and a total showcase for Purdie and his team’s palpable experience’. Why do I get the strangle feeling that Famurewa is playing to the gallery with this one?
Did the review make me want to book a table: I know the restaurant’s PR too. I’m going to dodge answering this one.
What TripAdvisor told us:
1 review, 5 star average
Claire T: We had a lovely meal at Cafe Britaly last night - everything we ate was delicious! The small restaurant itself is comfortable and bright and the staff are super friendly. Relaxed dining, great atmosphere and really well priced and tasty food and wine - it ticked all my boxes! Will definitely be going back for more’ 5 stars.
Giles Coren, The Times
Josephine Bouchon. London (9)
What the critic told us: It’s in a bougie neighbourhood an annoyingly long way from where Coren lives where the £50million houses are owned by bloody foreigners (I’m paraphrasing of course). Coren had dinner with the associate editor of The Times who is an old mate of his and a massive pisshead wine expert. They drank quite a bit. Restaurant manager Will Smith hasn’t bought a new shirt since his days running Arbutus with chef Anthony Demetre.
The food is very French and very good: ‘The pike mousse was as light as a meringue’, leeks vinaigrette were ‘white like asparagus, melty soft and blanketed with a thick, sharp, creamy emulsion and chopped chives’ sweetbreads were ‘the size and shape of a toddler’s fist, very faintly crisp at the edge but then properly gooey throughout’. It goes on, but Coren judged Josephine Bouchon to be ‘a seriously wonderful neighbourhood restaurant’ with ‘people of all ages, many races, dressed up respectably but not party-smart, chattering away, reaching for the house wine bottles from which they are charged by the rulered inch’.
Best line: ‘Get your smartphone, book it for the next available evening, then come back and read my whiffle if you can be bothered’
Worst line: ‘Fulham is a shlep. It’s an hour by car, which means either not drinking (which is far from the point of a Lyonnais bouchon) and spending two hours of your evening staring at tail lights, or £100+ in cabs. The Tube is a nightmare and I can’t cycle that far. So I just didn’t go’. Not if you live in Fulham. But it is two hours door to door from where I live in Brighton. Do you hear me complaining?
Did the review make me want to book a table: Been. Would go back.
What Tripadvisor told us:
30 reviews, 3.5 star average
MadamC: ‘be warned the food is very buttery and creamy and rich and choose carefully and make sure you are in the mood for very rich food. I felt that it was over relying on butter...but I do not eat butter on a daily basis’. Three stars.
JSC: ‘Disappointingly slow service mixed with the feeling that they were rushing to get us out’. Three stars.
Martin G: ‘Classic case of trendy overcoming what is pretty mediocre food.’ Three stars.
ianjrose1: ‘Totally hopeless told us we had a reservation at 4pm today for 8pm and said can't cancel have to call the restaurant and on phone number anywhere so totally hopeless and don't touch it with a barge pole!. 1 star.
ChelseamanLondon: ‘Whilst it is good that dogs are allowed into restaurants they should not be permitted to sit on chairs for the duration of the meal as happened two tables away.’ 3 stars
nick p: ‘if the waiter reminds again that 1 hour into a 2 hour booking my table is due back in 55 minutes I will scream’. 1 star.
fairfares18: ‘I wonder if Napoleon ever even said:"Not tonight Josephine!" But in this case its the opposite because its well worth a trip down the Fulham Road to this romantic French eaterie.’ 5 stars.
Grace Dent, The Guardian
Assaggini, Glasgow
Dent thinks Assaggini’s pasta small plates are ‘a lovely idea’ and its list of pizzas makes it feel like ‘a futuristic Pizza Express built for a brave new world’. The only trouble is they can’t cook, which seem like quite a significant problem for a restaurant to overcome. Everything is underseasoned, unappealing and lacklustre. And those pizzas? Palid. It’s not worth going into more detail because neither you nor me are ever going to darken Assaggini’s doors unless Tripadvisor can tell us something different.
Best line: ‘I ordered the tiramisu . . . . I longed for that near-death experience of inhaling at least a tablespoon of cocoa powder from the top of a fat slice of coffee-soaked sponge fingers, claggy with mascarpone, double cream and marsala. Instead, a small glass jar arrived filled with structureless custard that was flavoured with something akin to Mellow Bird’s instant coffee’
Worst line: N/A
Did the review make me want to book a table: Here’s a little secret. I hardly ever eat pizza outside the home. Cheese on toast, innit.
What TripAdvisor told us:
19 reviews, 3 star average
kerr2401: ‘Sorry, but the food was really not very nice, tasteless and definitely not worth the money . . . .Would not return or recommend, sorry, very poor.’ 3 stars
TheFoodmeister: ‘Extremely dissatisfied. The pasta was bland. Definitely not your Italian authentic type of cooking. I think there is more flavour in a packet of 'Pasta n Sauce'. Looked more like Saag Aloo’ 1 star
allieblue73: ‘There were 3 of us and the table was positioned beside a pillar, this meant that one of us was facing this and one of us were sat next to it. In a not very busy restaurant it seemed crazy to seat us here . . . . 2 of us ordered the pizza which we then had to ask for steak knives as we couldn’t cut through them. . . .The ass Mgr came over at this point and we told him our concerns and dis’s appointment. He said leave it with him… we didn’t see him again’ 2 stars
TravelGal99200: ‘Bland food /over priced/ really disappointing & would have absolutely no desire to return. There was no atmosphere and didn’t think the bill warranted a service charge. Sorry to say but overpriced & tasteless food - wouldn’t recommend’ 1 star
Stephen J: ‘Where do we start, the decor ambience along with music,,,made our night so relaxed even before we started eating. They say small plates 2 to 3 between one person I would say that's about perfect. Everything we tasted was pipping hot and full of flavour. Like most we love pepperoni pizza ,this was like nothing we have had before ..180%...just go..👌 ..ps the menu is really 👍good’ 5 stars (this is the only contribution from Stephen J on the whole of Tripadvisor).
William Sitwell, The Telegraph
Hitchen's Barn, Oakham (5 stars)
Handy for a funeral, our intrepid reviewer finds himself in a ‘timber-beamed barn’ in an East Midlands town eating chef and owner Neil’s ‘highly competent and delicious food’ dished up with ‘charm and efficiency’ by wife Louise. There are cushions on the random wooden chairs and ‘ancient cooking implements’ on the walls. The local seasonal food is cooked in a style that Sitwell says he would describe as ‘unfussy modern British gastro pub’. Go ahead, you have our permission to describe it as such, it is your job to do so after all (can you tell it’s getting to the end of a long day for me?).
A Welsh rarebit crouton puts Sitwell into a reverie about his ‘old pal’s mother who had died’. Whether it’s a Proustian (him again) moment inspired by the ‘rich and naughty charred chunk of cheese on toast’ is not entirely clear. Let’s move on. Pollock has ‘faultless flesh’ and a chocolate and pear dessert is ‘glorious’.
Best line: N/A
Worst line: ‘And the next time a wonderful mum of an old friend dies, I hope there’s an establishment handy to provide such magnificent comfort’
Did the review make me want to book a table: Honestly, no.
What TripAdvisor told us:
276 reviews, 5 star average
Christopher P: ‘decent food, atmosphere diabolical and the table was sticky’ 3 stars.
fragrantfarmer: ‘Leek and potato soup pleasant but what were those chunks of new potatoes in the bottom for? Is this a soup or a stew?’ 2 stars.
Margo299: ‘We had been seated 15 minutes before being asked if we wanted a drink, the menus arrived with the drinks meaning we had already been there well over an hour before our food arrived’ 4 stars
Twotoneskaman: ‘The only real negative was that we thought that the seats were very uncomfortable’ 4 stars
Pirbright1956: ‘Wouldn’t go again but worth one visit. Nice food. Some Staff a little standoffish. West end prices. Nice building but probably not the best value for money
Seems popular though’ 4 stars
Lilly Subbotin, The Independent
Bacchanalia, London
Two years on from its Instagram fuelled launch when it was ‘all the rage’ (is the phrase ‘all the rage’ back in fashion too? Asking for a friend) Subbotin has decided to see if Richard Caring’s wildly batshit folly that’s ‘decadently decked out in reds and golds’ where ‘there’s a live band’ and ‘waiters are dressed in slightly demeaning toga-like uniforms’ is still all that, if it ever was all that in the first place. I don’t know, I’ve never been. I never will go.
Whether it’s all that or not, Subbotin finds it rammed on a Wednesday, which is exactly when you want it rammed, at least in my experience. She finds ‘exuberant flauntings of wealth and unicorns sticking out the wall’ which I imagine was a first for her. She drinks a cocktail and eats some food, some of which is good, some not so good. Then she goes to the loo. Christ, I hope it’s a number one. It’s OK everyone, she’s not going to tell us. There were some models taking selfies in there because the toilets at Bacchanalia are by far the most famous thing about it, even though it’s got one of the most extensive wine lists in the country with over 1000 references. The restaurant, not its toilets. Although I’m sure they’d oblige if that’s your thing. No one cares about the wine though, at least that’s what I assume as Subbotin doesn’t mention it once.
Subbotin doesn’t ‘quite have an answer for how they’ve managed to sustain the intrigue’ which is a massive letdown. We can excuse her however because, as she explains, ‘my opinion doesn’t really matter when it comes to Bacchanalia – it’s not meant for me’. Not being funny, but I reckon she could have worked that out just by looking at the website.
Best line: ‘The fava puree beneath is fine, neither adding or taking away from the dish’
Worst line: ‘The next course consists of lamb chops, which are cooked as perfectly as the octopus. Sizzled, scrumptious and just the right amount of pink’
Did the review make me want to book a table: See comment above.
What TripAdvisor told us:
568 reviews, 4 star average
Julia L: ‘£300 bill for Lidl shrimps and Waitrose caviar 😅 Very weird atmosphere, perfect place for pick ups, place is full with women for sale Never ever again!!!’ 1 star. This is Julia L’s only contribution to Tripadvisor.
sunshineduckldn: ‘the interior is stunning. I don’t think there’s a bad seat to enjoy the sculptures. Toilets also really well decorated . . . . we had empty plates in front of us for 20mins . . . .We had mocktails but they tasted very artificial and a bit like toilet cleaner!’ 3 stars
edward m: ‘a £1350 bill for 5 people the starters were bland, like in a school canteen, the carpaccio and the tartare were more like cold minced meat in a bland tomato sauce. the garlic pizza bread with tomatoes on cost 20 quid and was soggy, luke warm and tasteless’ 1 star
sims_chatha: ‘some grumpy front desk ladies barked at us informing us we had a time slot and basically had to be done within it . . . .The menu was underwhelming with very limited options for vegetarians and when the food came it just wasn’t that good. Starters were tiny but tasted nice. The mains were generous but didn’t taste nice. Drinks didn’t taste very nice either. . . .We will not be visiting again’ 3 stars
Concluding thoughts
This is so flimsy that it doesn’t really merit its own heading, but here we go nevertheless. Having read the seven critic’s reviews and trawled through hundreds of Tripadvisor write-ups, it seems to me that both suffer from the same problem: self-involvement. For the critics, the main motivation is to write a compelling narrative with an accurate appraisal of the restaurant coming a not-very close second. Hence we get hundreds of words about stomach complaints and dead acquaintances.
For Tripadvisor reviewers, the main motivation is to either justify money spent or extract some revenge/closure for money they feel has been spent wastefully. Hence the endless teeth-grinding about prices, the location of the table they’ve been given and the amount of attention they are receiving from the front-of-house team.
For the critics, there is no money involved so there’s no real pain (everything will be claimed back unless they’ve gone crazy on the vintage wine which seems to be a weekly occurrence with some of our critical chums) and they are highly unlikely to sit opposite the plate clearing station by the kitchen (although Marina O’Loughlin often claimed to have been given the worse table in the room) and off they waft into expense land where a clever turn of phrase or a well-placed quote makes everything groovy.
Which is more useful, a newspaper review or a Tripadvisor write-up? The reality is that they are an inseparable Yin and Yang; one balances the other. Taken together, they bring us closer to the truth. Or is that just a neat journalistic way of wrapping up this edition? Maybe someone should write a review of this newsletter and then we might find out.
Haha, glad I found this – made me laugh. Don't worry, it was a number one.
Priceless insight. Might take the template and apply it to Italy's eating out scene. Just based on reviews from tourists/visitors and locals (in Italian). Not sure how much crossover there would however, but even that would be interesting.